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Chat: Split the Chat into Main Chat and RP Chat

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Aekari Tennou's picture
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Note 1: Tuesday April 3rd, 02:50 Pacific Time: This proposal is hereby revoked. A new proposal will be put in its place when I have reworded it.

Note 2: Tuesday, April 3rd, 03:07 Pacific Time: This proposal has been fully revoked and will not be restated.

Due to the diverse group of people who come to NanoFate Chat, I would like to propose the following to keep chat organized and as many chatgoers as possible happy.

Definitions:
"Short-Term Roleplaying" - "Short-term roleplaying" will here be defined as a poke, an action, or otherwise a short term play-conflict in a generally undefined setting, like shooting at people and shooting back or other types of fights, hiding in corners, etc., as was common back in the day (you older members will know what I'm talking about).

"Extensive Roleplaying" - "Extensive roleplaying" will here be defined as long-term roleplay that may or may not involve defined characters, defined settings, and typically lasts for a long period of time into subsequent roleplays that use the same characters, settings, etc. The current ongoing roleplay that we commonly refer to as "chat RP" is an example of extensive roleplaying.

1.
I would like to propose that we separate chat into main chat and RP chat.

Main Chat will refer to the default room that you enter upon accessing chat called "Nanoha and Fate's room." I propose that a second room, simply called "RP Chat," for example, be used solely for roleplaying.

In order to reduce the hassle of getting to the RP Chat, I would like to propose that the RP Chat be opened as a default room in addition to Nanoha and Fate's room.

2.
In Main Chat, we will have a rule that states something along the lines of "no extensive roleplaying," restricting the content of the chat to chatting and occasional short-term roleplaying.

In RP Chat, extensive roleplaying in addition to short-term roleplaying will be allowed.

3.
You may, of course, leave and join each chat as you see fit. There are no rules that are to prevent you from joining whichever room you want to, and you may very well join both simultaneously.

4.
Why in the world does this even matter? One reason is simply to keep people from getting TOO confused about when something is roleplayed or not. In addition, there have apparently been complaints that non-roleplayers have felt alienated or ignored by the fairly frequent roleplaying.

I intend to tread on no one's rights to chat or RP in making this proposition, as everyone who wants to has the right to chat, and everyone who wants to has the right to RP. However, I propose that these two things be done in the appropriate places. Just as you wouldn't play basketball on a tennis court while another group is playing tennis, or tennis on a basketball court while another group is playing basketball, everything has its place.

With everything having its proper place, I propose that chat has its proper place in one room and that RP has its proper place in another room.

Thank you for reading.

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tl;dr: For all you "too long; didn't read"ers, because I know you're out there, I would really appreciate if you took the time to read through the entire proposal.

However, if you are in a hurry, or you simply MUST read a tl;dr version of the proposal, then here it is.

I propose that chat be separated into a chatting room and an RP chat, with both chats being opened as default upon accessing the chat. This proposition is made with the idea of respecting the rights of those who want to chat in peace and those who want to RP in peace.

Questions? Comments? Concerns? Criticisms? Read the entire document.

------------------------------

Still got questions, comments, concerns, criticisms that weren't answered by reading? Leave them here, and the community can discuss them.

A.
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Last time someone suggested this, some people didn't want to make the split, but if this time people wants it to be changed, I guess we can do it.
I, personally, would prefer to keep everything together, because the site is running slow enough with one chat and I'm not sure if adding another chat would affect the performance of our server. I people is interested I think we can try for a time.

Seikou's picture
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Personally I prefer things the way they are.

But if it happens, the ONLY way I will be for it is if the RP channel is a second default along with the default ''Nanoha and Fate's room'', otherwise it would completely destroy the open RPing everyone can join when they want.

Otherwise I, and I'm sure a lot of others, are not interested.

-mostly a reply to those posting below me-

I can however understand some people are annoyed at all the RP, just like how random chat about nothing annoys me, but it doesn't mean we should raise the proverbial middle finger to the RPers, as for ''we have forums, isn't that the best way to RP'' clearly not, all forum RPs have died here, aside from two, and those only ended properly because our favorite Alicia lead them.

Not to mention, if one person leaves the site unanounced, the entire forum RP stalls, we don't have that problem in chat, we simply adapt to a person being gone and continue seconds later, the RPing we do in chat is very different from lengthy fanfiction styled RPs.

So... TL;DR:

I am interested if the RP channel is a second default channel that always opens when you enter chat, so that the automatic choice of whether or not participating in the RP remains, it remains open and non-RPers get their way too in the main chat.

How it will affect everything mechanically, I cannot say with certainties, but considering individuals already open additional channels regularely for their own reasons, I cannot imagine it having too much impact.

And yeah, I had not considered some of the old folks I was used to seeing may actually be staying away because they do not like the new all RP chat atmosphere.

On a sidenote of curiousity, Haru, is there a specific reason chat is always laggy these days (it pretty much always has a delay these days), like too much activity, or it never having recovered entirely from the downtimes the site has had in the last year or so?

Because I recall the chat laggyness that became pretty much permanent started after a server move quite some time ago.

A.
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Quote:
On a sidenote of curiousity, Haru, is there a specific reason chat is always laggy these days (it pretty much always has a delay these days), like too much activity, or it never having recovered entirely from the downtimes the site has had in the last year or so?

The server has been running slower lately, but I'm not sure anymore what is the cause of this. We have a lot of visitors and Webcrawlers/Spambots in the site, so the problem may be in our end. But then again all the problems we have had so far have been fault of our host provider... but I'm really tired of contacting them, probably I've written over 80 messages to them already, regarding different issues.
We have a contract for one year with them so we can't try our luck in a better server for about 8 months.

Seikou's picture
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Alright, anyway, don't worry too much about it though, I'm not sure about the rest, but to me having the chat work is enough, the lag I can deal with.

Aekari Tennou's picture
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Yeah, it appears there're a bunch of people who are for it, against it, or who don't care. That really doesn't seem like it's going to change.

However, at this point, I'd say it's worth a try. That way we can see once and for all if it's good, bad, if people like it or hate it, and whatnot. At the very least, we'll have tried it, and if it all falls through, then we can say based on evidence that it didn't work rather than hypothesizing that it won't work without any proof.

Connor_2
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Why don't you just dissolve the chat? It seems that most of the lags that weights this site down centers on the chat, which I have gathered, seemed to go offline a lot lately.

You have a fully functioning forum for Rps and discussions that's been neglected because most users go to the chats. It would be great to use what you have rather than add something new. But this is just my two cents.

Natus's picture
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From my experiences, I agree with this statement. Every time I've been in the chatroom it's always been... less that active. I kinda wonder if it's worth operating it sometimes ^^;

Like, the only people on are AFK plus one or two guys alt-tabbing somewhere else. Even if I'm just logging on at really inopportune times there ARE those forum threads and stuff as well. It's got to be the most organised way to role play, right?

Of course, the whole 'split the chat into 2 rooms' also seem like an interesting idea. Part of me agrees with the idea but another part of me wonders if enough people are using the chat that way to warrant such a split.

Ah well, I don't use the chat that much so I don't really mind what happens. I do believe that giving the idea a little test run would be interesting though.

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Seikou's picture
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With respect, I do not believe you can accurately judge the chat situation as ''not sure if it's worth maintaining'', I've been in chat for a long time now and have barely, if ever seen you in it.

I litterally spend most of my days in there and see plenty of activity, so much actually that I sometimes think the lag we often have in it is because of too much activity.

Natus's picture
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You're right, I don't venture into chat often. I guess I'm just biased against the whole experience from what little I have seen when I go in there. ^^;

...Eh? You don't remember seeing me in chat? I'm pretty sure we had a fight or something? (...Or was that someone else?)

Hm, I wonder if we can approach the situation from another angle? Is there a way to speed up the chat/make it more efficient or to lessen the effects it has? Like, if we 'outsourced' it to a different space so it had no direct affect on the NanoFate server or something.

Now that I think about it, are we even capable of running 2 chat room things? I'm not exactly the most... technologically competent person but I'd assume that 2 chats would double the stress on the server or something. (Feel free to speak up if I start talking nonsense, I have no idea what I'm really saying)

I'm fine with the way things are now really. I'm interested to see how this plays out though.

Part of me thinks that if we could make the chat run more efficiently then we could sidestep some of the issues concerning this debate and it'd just come down to convenience/preferences of the chat goers what happens next.

The other part of me is hungry.

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A.
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Natus wrote:
Hm, I wonder if we can approach the situation from another angle? Is there a way to speed up the chat/make it more efficient or to lessen the effects it has? Like, if we 'outsourced' it to a different space so it had no direct affect on the NanoFate server or something.

I tried that a long time ago, but it was hard to find something that could be integrated with our CMS and the users' accounts. I tried installing an IRC chat too, but the Web api ended up using more resources than our current php chat (that actually runs on our servers, and not somewhere else). So I think we're out of options, unless someone knows a good alternative.

Seikou's picture
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I assure you, no chat will make a lot of people, including me, permanently leave, I am here for the chat mostly.

Crazyla's picture
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Personally, I think the site's running is more important than the chat. If having another chatroom is bound to create even more problems, then it isn't worth having it.

Aekari Tennou's picture
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Crazyla wrote:
Personally, I think the site's running is more important than the chat. If having another chatroom is bound to create even more problems, then it isn't worth having it.

Yes, I totally agree with you. However,

A. wrote:
...and I'm not sure if adding another chat would affect the performance of our server.

does not say that it is "bound" to create even more problems. At this point, it seems no one can say that this will be the case. If it is conclusively proven that nothing good will come from splitting the chat, either in terms of unpopularity or in terms of site functionality, I will relent in my proposition. However, until we are sure beyond all doubt that such an addition will only be detrimental to the functionality of the site, I believe this is worth a try.

This gives me an interesting thought though. A number of users in chat already fairly regularly open up various other rooms in the chat to do this or that. If it will be the case that creating a second default room will reduce the performance of the server, could it be that their opening up various rooms is currently contributing to this reduced functionality? If so, how much would opening up a second default room do?

-----

Natus wrote:
Part of me agrees with the idea but another part of me wonders if enough people are using the chat that way to warrant such a split.

Ah well, I don't use the chat that much so I don't really mind what happens. I do believe that giving the idea a little test run would be interesting though.

From my perspective and the perspective of others who have left or have greatly reduced activity citing extensive roleplaying as the reason, I feel that enough people are using the chat in this manner to warrant a split. But don't take my word for it. If you are at all curious, pop into the chat regularly for a week or two and see for yourself whether or not this is the case.

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I've been actively attending chat at random times, and usually, it's pretty active.

I can say for certain that some people will be pretty upset if chat gets closed down =/

Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee

Natus's picture
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Well then, this matter doesn't look like it will be resolved any time soon. Shall we put it to vote?

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Saber's picture
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I like the idea of putting chat on external sites. Everybody wins in that situation.

You said our accounts from nanofate won't be linked up if we did this, but it small price to make everyone happy imo.