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What If only.....?

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JinsenHo's picture
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Somehow, I recently like NanoFate doujinshis so much. So different than any other doujins I read.
But there's a new question pop up from my mid, although that questions made me so nervous. Though I dont want to make any misunderstanding and led to arguments. I just wrote the topic title "What If Only" fr discussing my doubts. And I like to thx NanoFate website for most amazing doujins where I could found! ^_^

And I'm very interested in Physics and magic category type of battles! ^_^

I have found out that "TSAB" Organisation all using magics, but I can't find any non-magic users or combatants in the battlefield. I wonder whether non-magic person can join into TSAB being "Soldiers" instead of mages. I have read their Laws and regulations o physical properties of weapons uses. The restriction but not entirely ban Physical weapons except Biological, Chemical Explosive (Lethal), Nuclear & Radiological weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction
http://nanoha.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_weapon

They also seem to restricting weapons are to lethal like firearms. In order to counter this, they enforcing Using magic devices and spells for reducing lethal percentages. Not to mention, they wanted to protect environment as much as they can. So idk whether my hypothesis or theories are valid or invalid. But here's the hypothesis.

TSAB countering weapons of mass destruction and reducing lethal rate:
But not for physical weapon types like:
-ADS (Active Denial System) Weapon/(Canon)
-Flashbang
-Non lethal gas Grenade (e.g.-Tear gas)
-Hand Gauntlet Taser
-Sonic Weapon <Sound emitting electric Projectile>
-PEP Weapon
-Body enhancement suit, (Not Cyborg Enhancement method) <Think like nanosuit, somekind?>

While on the other hand, Mechanical like gadget drones or ships maybe the most headache ones, since TSAB restricting Mass weapons, while these non lethal weapons are not effective against mechanical units.

To counter mechanical through
-Blaster Canon (Energy ver; Not default ver)
-Gauss Weapon
-Anti Material Weapon

*It seem TSAB also granted permission for producing mass weapons like Gladiator and Oxtongue that firing lethal ammos.

*While Isis Egret's Armour Jacket is also physical type, not magic/mana type.

*All mages can fly, right? If this for non magic user, they have to use some invention to fill up their lack of ability of flying.

The last and much headache one is the batteries problem, idk whether Fusion Batteries are permitted or not <Higher percentages will be reject since is nuclear battery>, while the most cleanest energy is Recently re-purpose Tesla electricity (Wireless electricity).Although our current technology of wireless electricity is not very efficient, but I assume/not real that wireless electricity can be improved throughout the time that even weapons can apply this type of battery form. Most of abundant electricity are originated from earth. There's already an indiegogo campaign of this project (Although already Finished). But here is the link you can visit for more information.
http://getcorp.com/

Summary
I only worrying whether non magic people can join in TSAB for combating incidences that is illegal. I also found out that if non magic person mastered Combat training, pragmatic, logical & tactical thinking, and also defeating opponents while non-lethally will much more resourceful than ordinary mages who didn't partake intense and hardest training that non magic users did <That means if mages partake this intense training, will be much more easier to reach rank A than any mages who didn't partake it>. I know this is off topic or not important for u guys, but I want to confirm this problem for me to feel ease.

JinsenHo's picture
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I seperate this from main post due to many info to read it clearly.

Mages partake this training will much more easy reach rank A than ordinary mages due to this training have different categories.

My assumption, not real result:

-Close Combat Training
-psychological warfare
-How human works
-Countermeasures & Counter-countermeasures
-Pragmatic training/learning
-Science of Warfare (Knowing what weaknesses & logic actions of every types of combatants in general)
-Defeating opponents (illegal mages/cyborgs) while you are not mages like in TSAB organisation <Major>

Countermeasures & Counter-countermeasures:
E.g. AMF resist or immune to magic attacks, but limited to Physical weapons and inorganic attacks show in StrikerS episode 3.

For those who are interested in science, magics, tactics and warfare, I recommend you guys watch "Drifters" manga & anime.

Sansker's picture
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Interesting ideas here, but I am afraid I am not following where you are trying to get here. Non mages can join the TSAB and reach higher ranks easy. We see Regius in StrikerS who was a Lt. General and he doesn’t have magic. There is also Teana’s assistant in Sound Stage X who uses a mass base weapon (If she is a mage or not I can’t remember right now) but the entire issue is that we never see any non mage in active combat. However some indications from ViVid seem to suggest that there are ways for people without magic to fight on part with mages using some “Jin” or something like that.

As for reaching higher ranks. Magical ranks are about a mix of skill and power, since the tests do not limit themselves to just measure someone’s raw power. However the ranks are also use as a measure of one’s overall abilities, since it seems most TSAB mages can’t go beyond Rank B. I admit the scales and how they do this seems weak at best.

A.
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Adding to what Sansker said, flying is also confirmed to be a rare skill. Most strong mages can fly, but they're meant to be uncommon.

JinsenHo's picture
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Quote:
Non mages can join the TSAB and reach higher ranks easy. We see Regius in StrikerS who was a Lt. General and he doesn’t have magic. There is also Teana’s assistant in Sound Stage X who uses a mass base weapon (If she is a mage or not I can’t remember right now) but the entire issue is that we never see any non mage in active combat.

I like your quote here! ^_^

Because Drifters anime had already proven magic is not everything to solve difficulties while is your knowledge, wisdom, psychological and science; most importantly- Experiences.
Even the non magic faction can seem so powerful than magic faction.

Edit:

Quote:
Adding to what Sansker said, flying is also confirmed to be a rare skill. Most strong mages can fly, but they're meant to be uncommon.

If this is true, why I seen so many mages flying in StrikerS at episode 2 of flashbacking saving Subaru. If they are strong mages, but still can't reach rank B or easily than no magic Lt.General?

If you interested this awesome anime of mixture of science & magic, this is the anime I mentioned:

Drifters

Spoiler:

This anime teaches us psychological warfare, politics of different factions, defensive to offensive uses, and the importance of experiences and wisdom to solve difficulties.

A.
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JinsenHo wrote:

If this is true, why I seen so many mages flying in StrikerS at episode 2 of flashbacking saving Subaru. If they are strong mages, but still can't reach rank B or easily than no magic Lt.General.

That caught my attention too. Maybe it was a specialized team composed of air missions, we can only speculate.

Sansker's picture
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There are three branches in the TSAB service: the Ground Forces, the Air Forces and the Dimensional Navy. Now, the ones with the brow uniforms we see in StrikerS are the Ground Forces while those in blue (like Lindy, Hayate in Force and Regious oddly enough) are the Navy. While the Air Forces have no uniform I can remember right now (We do see mages in generic combat gear during the show but I don’t think they show their uniforms)

Flying is rare, but we see plenty because the Air Forces are compose of mages with this power (However, in another weird move, is not necessary to be able to fly to join) there might be planes, since we do see helicopters being use, but once more there is precious little information on how any of it works. We do know there is a “traffic” division among the TSAB but they act both as an army and police force depending on the situation.

I am sad to say but when it comes to world building the Nanoha franchise isn’t all that deep and plenty of details are just done with. I would like to see non mages show proper skills and how you can overcome someone with powers using tools and ingenuity (Rather than “magic” but calling it something else as we see in ViVid with this “Jin” idea)

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Quote:
I am sad to say but when it comes to world building the Nanoha franchise isn’t all that deep and plenty of details are just done with. I would like to see non mages show proper skills and how you can overcome someone with powers using tools and ingenuity (Rather than “magic” but calling it something else as we see in ViVid with this “Jin” idea)

I agree with you. Mostly japan animation focus on actions and battles, but they are lacking focus on much more details of lore like in western stories <Mechwarrior, Shadowrun, Heavy Gear>. I hope my assumption is wrong, maybe minor of japan anime and manga are more carefully with their lore details.

Some example mostly from pokemon:

JinsenHo's picture
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After reading and watch some StrikerS and Force lore, I wonder why Anti-magic Field (Also known as AMF) majority from drones? Isn't anti magic can be categorized into many type of attacks, mine speculation is ("Anti-magic attacks, bullets, melee"). Is AM in Nanoha verse or timeline only limited in field? I though their technology and their advancements can adapt their weapons and armor much more variable than only AM "field".

Maybe you can call me playing too much Sci-Fi games, but here's the example, when dealing mechanical units, we choose armor piercing or shock/EMP to destroy mechanical entirely, but in Nanoha Verse, they rather choose variable shots and Barret shots that somehow guarantee about 65-70 successful kill percentages since these bullets still contain magic, not pure physics, and "What if AMF was enforced and upgraded in drones", almost made barret shot and variable shot obsolete in these kind of situations. Well, Nanoha ability of Stardust Fall is much more effective than these 2 shots, I agree with that.

The second part is are they only limited to AM "F (Field)"? In order TSAB to defeat their foes much more effective is their weapons and devices can be adapted with Anti-Magic Attacks or bullets, melee. For example, during battle, when mages taken an Anti-Magic attacks, it will weakened their linker core that made them very hard to concentrate in the battlefield; Too much AMA (Anti-Magic Attack) was taken, the mage can't use their spell effectively, then they must retreat or escape to regenerate their linker core energy.

Last but not least, I read about Inherent skills. Inherent skills is not a spell attack but rather non-magic skill that appear like magic attack. If you guys said this skill only limited to Cyborg, but here's the problem, Fate use Lightning Bind that is inherent skill.
About Binder spell, most binder skills are spell based, so I think TSAB can apply "Endothermic & Exothermic" principle to counter binding spells, for example Endo/Exo- Magic vest and body coverings for absorbing binding spell energy to further weaken its effect, then exo part is release out binding spell energy then the rest is up to your physical body to break the bind.

I really like to see TSAB can be much more creative in terms of weapons designs principle rather than Pure brute magic solves everything. I do see Nanoha Verse have so much potential to be a very rich anime lore if only the Author of this Franchise can being much more creative and open in this franchise.

Edit: I found out that cartridge system also can be used by Non-mages since the mana energy was highly compressed into the bullets, then was released by the weapons or devices itself. It can be categorized as Mass-weapon "But in mana-energy form".